The Toni & Matt Show #5
How do you listen to the show? At your computer? On your iPod? In the car? On the run? We want to know. Call the comment line at 206-888-0346.
A great show to kick off the first week of March. More listener comments, including one from “professional” runner Matt Tegenkamp. Toni challenges the audience. And kudos to Lolo Jones for her $25,000 dance. If it’s in the sport, it’s on the show.
In this episode:
I. A call to action: call the comment line; contribute to the show (206-888-0346)
II. We received the following comment from Katie. Great constructive criticism:
I like the way your Toni & Matt show is developing. Criticism is getting a
bit more constructive, conversation a bit more comfortable. The one thing
that bugs me is what feels like a slight double standard - the criticism of
“20 in 10″ and the often non-competitive nature of some aspects of the
sport/disinterest in the common Joe (in Toni’s comments on the Spirit of the
Marathon) next to the reaction to someone like Russell calling in from Iraq.I feel similarly sometimes, I’m not interested in the ‘one runner’s story’
kinda stuff, but then I MEET one runner, and hear the story in person and I
DO find it interesting - just as Russell’s story is fascinating. Its hard to
separate when/how coverage of that very integral part of the sport is
appropriate and inappropriate.I don’t have a problem with what you guys have said so far, like I said, I
have similar conflicts. But your criticisms run the risk of going in circles
if you can’t define or sort out those issues somehow.
III. A brief recap of the LA Marathon: live streaming + good tv ratings + untapped potential = for sale?
IV. How can the WMM fix the fact that fans have to wait two years to figure out who wins?
V. Listener comment from Tara in Johnson City, Tennessee: Elite vs Professional
VI. Listener comment emailed to the show. It’s clear we have a bright audience:
I just wanted to make a quick comment on switching over to “professional” for elite fields, starts, etc. One major problem is that running has really very few true professionals, and a lot of people who still have to do something else to make money, but regularly make elite starts, or get invited as part of an elite field, especially at smaller races. I am a tier below these runners, but I know that to exclude them from the ranks of elite runners, by limiting it to professionals, would deny some of the richness of the sport. I still think it’s really cool how many people hold a job they care about and are still passionate about running around in circles.I have to get back to my lab work (my job as a genetics graduate student), but if I may suggest an exercise, look at the top 10 to 20 American women at the NYC marathon this year, and use the internet to see how many hold a day job. In other words, how many are true professionals, and how many are just elite?
In a way, I think the elite vs. professional word choice points to a dispute within the sport on the whole. Should distance running in America support a few dozen runners who have been anointed since their high school Footlocker days? Or is there room to support the next tier down as well, the few hundred who could make olympic trials, go to international cross country races that the professionals are too busy for, and might make the breakthroughs to get them into the true professional ranks? Honestly, these are the runners that interest me, the ones I love to watch and cheer for, as a fan.
VII. Matt Tegenkamp (recent indoor 3000m champ) calls in with a question about marketing the sport.
VIII. T&M or M&T? You decide.
How would you improve the sport? Call the comment line at 206-888-0346. Just wait for the beep.
[Music is “Wagon Wheel” by Old Crow Medicine Show]
Last 5 posts by Matt Taylor- The Toni & Matt Show #17 - Vin Lananna - July 9th, 2008
- LetsRun.com Eugene '08 - June 30th, 2008
- The Toni & Matt Show #16 - June 17th, 2008
- USOC to USATF: Change Now! - June 14th, 2008
- The Toni & Matt Show #15 - June 11th, 2008
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm |
Just finished the podcast. Really enjoyed it. Had some thoughts about the Visa Championship series. 1- if it is a series why is the prize money based off of a single performance? 2- how can someone win the series while getting 3rd in his event at the Championship meet! Just doesn’t make sense.
March 3rd, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
Toni,
I know you stated the reason for the shoe companies not to use the professional runners to market their products is “due to the fact that they will only appeal to the hard core runner.” Well I believe that is all we need to market our professional athletes (please, I am not knocking any other runners)!!!
I don’t know all the math involved but there are a lot of authors saying that you only need 1% of the population to “Tip” a trend. So with that in mind the US population is just over 300 million so we would need 300,000 of the hardcore runners/fans to get this trend “tipped” over. I don’t know the exact figures for the amount of high school/college runners that participate but I believe it exceeds basketball. Combine that with their coaches and parents that is a pretty big following. I am not saying that every high school/college runner, coach, or parent is a hardcore fan but lets face it, running is addicting and once people take a vested interest they pay attention.
And this is just in the US; once we start talking about the entire world I bet the hardcore runner population far exceeds that one percent. Maybe I am just dreaming but I believe that we need to grab and embrace the hardcore runner (fans) and use them to help spread our message. They can help educate everyone else.
Side note: The IAAF scoring tables are not hard to follow (I guess the math is but that is already done). The tables give every performance time a point value. The problem is the IAAF took the scoring tables off their website which is ridiculous because meets are still using them. If a fan was at a meet and was handed a program that had the scoring tables in it and then had the athletes name next to their performance time do you really believe that a fan could not figure out why a person is winning the Visa Championship series?
March 3rd, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
Great show once again guys! So many thought provoking comments and ideas. Here are a few thoughts:
- In regards to marketing our top athletes, isn’t it the role of agents to make this happen? Isn’t this the whole reason they are hired? It shouldn’t be an athletes job to market themselves. In every other sport it is the role of the agent to get sponsorship, to get their athletes face out there. As far as I know, 90% of our top tier stars have agents. What are these agents doing to promote their athletes in the best ways possible? Matt, you worked with KIMbia and saw the workings of what an agent does…is it realistic to put more pressure on them to market their athletes better?
- I am with you guys that the future of our sports growth needs to come from gaining “fanship” from the high school level. Hundreds of thousands of high school track and field athletes pass through the prep ranks, yet go up to nearly any of them and ask them who Matt Tegenkamp or Ryan Hall is and most of them can’t. This is a huge problem. Few other sports have this problem. This isn’t the athletes fault. Their job is to train and perform. When they do promotional appearances this is set up by coaches or agents. Anyways, high school athletes need to know the top athletes in their sport, who these athletes are and what type of marks they can put up. Until someone really takes hold of this idea and runs with it our sport is going to stay where it’s at in terms of popularity.
- On a similar note, and I’ll end my ranting here, do you think you guys can discuss how the European Circuit affects our athletes/sport? It is hard to market a sport in the U.S. if our top athletes are overseas from July - Septemeber running their best performances overseas and having limited exposure in the U.S. because of this. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.
Again, great job guys! Keep it up.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm |
Matt,
It’s great to have you come to Runnerville, and we wish you the best of success this Olympic year. On tomorrow’s Runnerville Weekly podcast I attempt to address your (and Scott’s) question about how to utilize our pros outside the running market.
Much of what makes the NBA, NFL, MLB team professionals good pitchmen in our society is their long-time, consistent appearance on TV from their college days onward. By the time they become pros we are already invested in them. Our sport is so haphazardly on TV that we never reach that tipping point of general recognition of which you speak. But like others have written and said, we must be faithful to and reliable for our hardcore fans instead of alienating them as we attempt to reach a broader audience with dumbed down material that proves futile in any case. Continued success, Matt, and keep thinking of ways to open our sport to its full potential.
March 4th, 2008 at 6:01 am |
The Tatt and Moni Show?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:42 am |
Good show guys. One trend I notice when people talk about expanding the track and field fan base is they always want to make it more accessible to the “general population.” Along the lines of your comments with marketing and why pro runners should even be used if the general public doesnt recognize them. While I don’t suggest making it some “members only” type of thing, I think the coverage, discussion, marketing etc. of track and field should be focused first and foremost on the current fan base.
Why should so-called “hard-core” fans be sacrificed. If you make being a track fan cool by developing smart, interesting media, the current track fans will continue to enjoy being track fans and, as Matt noted, we might reach that “tipping point” where all of a sudden its cool and fun to be a track fan and more and more people will get a taste of it and start getting hooked.
I hate all of this talk about how us current track fans should go out of our way to make our media more accessible (read: dumb it down) and our marketing more generic so some random people notice (which they dont notice usually anyway). Take care of the fans that are already there and more will want to join.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:41 pm |
Toni
I agree with your comments on how the professional aspect of racing has become the side bar story of running coverage. For example; some folks I run with here in Baghdad are from Michigan. These are runners who come out for interval training>>shows me they are serious about racing. However, not one of them knew who Brian Sell is. So then I quizzed some Aussie officers and none of them had heard of Craig Mottram. So how do we bridge the gap? The motivation for people to race must be studied>>some runners are there for the shirt, some for social aspect, some to motivate them to run for fitness reasons>>and those who are there to compete. I do not know how we can bridge the gap>>but Runnerville, LetsRun are venues to work on this gap.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:17 pm |
Russ, I share your frustrations. It seems to me that all the national federations and the IAAF have had control of our sport to themselves for decades, and in that time have allowed the demise of the sport to take place as they dither over who gets to take what trip to which championship. It will require either an aggressive entry into and takeover of these bodies, or a turnover in the legislation which has maintained sole ownership of the sport to these federations. That seems like an enormous task.
The only other solution is to try to begin a new professional body which circumvents the current structure, i.e. compete for the athletic talent that’s out there. But with national championships, the Olympics, and World Championships standing at the top of the food chain, this, too, would present enormous challenges in time and money.
I wish we could find an enlightened leader who sees as his/her mandate the re-structuring of the sport, to separate grass-roots development from professional promotion. It simply is not within the arcane structure of the bodies as presently constituted to make that distinction. Too many old, white men in blue blazers and straw hats lording over three square feet of territory as their personal kingdoms.
However, if we continue to beat the drum, and ask the hard questions, perhaps a sense of shame will come over them, and they will find themselves upon the road to a new Damascus. As always, I hesitate to hold my breath in anticipation of said Mapquest download. All good things, Russ. Stay safe. Best regards.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:37 pm |
Good points brought up by everyone. As a sport, we have a large base of potential fans. As has been mentioned, the number of people running HS and college track and CC is very large. The problem is that the vast majority of these kids don’t follow the professional side of the sport.
Having worked with a number of High School runners, you’d be amazed at how many couldn’t tell you who Dathan Ritzenhein or Matt Tegenkamp were. Even less could name you who Kenesia Bekele is. Out of a team of about 25 kids I’d say maybe 3 could tell you who these runners are. And those are kids who are putting in 50+ mpw trying to become better runners! If our own runners don’t know who the stars in the sport are, how can you expect someone not involved in the sport to become a fan?
Compare those numbers to your HS baseball or football team and I’m willing to bet you that everyone of those players knows who Randy Moss or Albert Pujols is.
Forget trying to get fans out of the mass public. We need to get those who are actively involved in our sport at both the High School and College levels to become hardcore fans first. Then you can worry about the rest of the people.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:33 pm |
Good point, Steve. Perhaps we should begin a volunteer program around the country which would bring both professional runners and collegiate runners to a workout and/or a clinic for groups of high school kids. The pros simply have to look beyond their own narrow world if they want to grow the interest in the sport. I wish it could be done without them.
Next Tuesday a number of top athletes from the San Diego area are going to a grade school in Carlsbad where Mike Long’s grandkids go to school. Mike was the legendary athlete recruiter for Elite Racing who died suddenly last summer of a heart attack. The kids are prepping for the Jr. Carlsbad races, and raising money for the Enototo Foundation, a 501c3 charity founded by Mike and Rich Jayne, Elite Racing TV’s producer which raised money for Ethiopian medical care. Monique Henderson, Josh Cox, (perhaps Meb and Dan Brown) and even Sara Hall will be on hand to help put the kids through a general workout regimen and set up a training schedule for the Jr. Carlsbad races. Ten-to-one these kids will remember those athletes next time they compete, especially if we give them updates on their progress toward Olympic Trials and the like.
How do we best utilize our talented and easily presented professional athletes to the best advantage of the sport without compromising their training schedules. There has to be a way. We just have to design it in consultation with them. We have been working with Merhawi Keflezighi, Meb’s brother and agent in getting the athletes out to Carlsbad. Big thanks to him and the athletes for their generosity of spirit. But if not in memory of Mike, then who?